Opened 11 years ago

Last modified 6 years ago

#8660 needs_work enhancement

German translation of installation guide — at Version 35

Reported by: mvngu Owned by: hedtke
Priority: major Milestone: sage-6.4
Component: translations Keywords: installation guide, German
Cc: bblochl@…, leif, schilly, minz, hedtke Merged in:
Authors: Bernhard Bloechl, Minh Van Nguyen, Simon King, Ivo Hedtke Reviewers:
Report Upstream: N/A Work issues:
Branch: Commit:
Dependencies: #9725 Stopgaps:

Description (last modified by leif)

A German translation of the Sage installation guide is complete. See sage-support for background information. What needs to be done now is to use Sphinx for the markup so that the translated guide could be included in the Sage standard documentation. Attached is the ODF version of the German translation.

It's very likely that #8698 would be merged first, prior to merging the current ticket. In that case, the patch on this ticket would need to be rebased against #8698.


Apply

  1. trac_8660_restart.patch
  2. trac_8660_restart_p1.patch
  3. trac_8660_restart_p2.patch

to the Sage library.

For Sage versions prior to 4.7.1.alpha2, you'll also have to apply the patches from #9725.

Change History (43)

Changed 11 years ago by mvngu

ODF document of the German translation

Changed 11 years ago by mvngu

PDF version of the previous document

comment:1 Changed 11 years ago by mvngu

  • Cc bblochl@… added
  • Description modified (diff)

Changed 11 years ago by mvngu

HTML code for Unicode characters

comment:2 Changed 11 years ago by leif

  • Cc leif added

comment:3 follow-up: Changed 11 years ago by leif

Sorry to say, but this translation really needs (more) work.

There are still lots of typos, inconsistently chosen terms and style, and some errors regarding the content (some information seems not to be up-to-date in the original either, haven't checked that yet). IMHO the translation is too much one-to-one in many places. (I would also add some things, perhaps leaving out other issues, since German documentation is rare if not non-existent anyway.)

The question is which format to edit: convert to ReST and rework that version or change the ODT source?

Bernhard, were you willing to edit/review/maintain a ReST version?

I'd personally prefer typesetting it in LaTeX... ;-) (and perhaps restructuring the text before it gets converted to .rst)

Unfortunately I currently don't feel having the time to maintain the "whole thing", otherwise I would some time ago have started providing a few translated documents. And -- I'm unfortunately not a mathematician; so I can only offer sporadic and limited help, not continuous collaboration, at least at the moment.

Pardon me, hope my first impression doesn't embarrass you too much, and nevertheless thanks for your initiative,

-Leif

Changed 11 years ago by mvngu

based on Sage 4.3.5

comment:4 Changed 11 years ago by mvngu

  • Authors set to Bernhard Bloechl, Minh Van Nguyen
  • Status changed from new to needs_review

I have attached a patch to integrate the German translation into the Sage documentation. The patch needs to be reviewed by someone other than Bernhard and me. My knowledge of the German language is next to nothing. I relied on Google Translate while converting the document from ODT to Sphinx.

comment:5 Changed 11 years ago by schilly

  • Cc schilly added

comment:6 Changed 11 years ago by schilly

  • Status changed from needs_review to needs_work

ok, i looked at the rest text and yes, i could proofread it, but i think first of all we have to settle what kind of translation we want. there are some german words i'm not happy with. they sound very artificial and it is from my point of view absolutely ok to keep english words (or near-english words) because more users will know what they mean than a "forced" translation that just sounds funny.

my background is that i did english to german translations for openoffice many years ago and there we had the same problems. i also know that others view that differently, especially from upper and eastern germany. so, we should settle this first.

comment:7 Changed 11 years ago by leif

First of all, could we please change its title to a German term, which is e.g. Installationsanleitung...

There are other flaws like Polynomiale instead of Polynome, the meaning of (symbolic) links is "inverted", and much more I don't remember at the moment.

I strongly suggest splitting off a ticket to discuss the contents (or style) in German.

-Leif

comment:8 Changed 11 years ago by mvngu

  • Description modified (diff)

comment:9 follow-up: Changed 11 years ago by SimonKing

Can someone please tell me what commands are needed to produce the German documentation (in html or pdf), so that I can do some proof reading?

And how should corrections be suggested/made? Should one state one's suggestions here in trac comments, so that Bernhard can take them into account? Should one post a patch that builds on top of the original patch? Or should one create a "big" patch that could replace the original patch?

Cheers, Simon

comment:10 in reply to: ↑ 9 Changed 11 years ago by mvngu

Replying to SimonKing:

Can someone please tell me what commands are needed to produce the German documentation (in html or pdf), so that I can do some proof reading?

Apply the patch trac_8660-installation-de.patch, then issue the following command to build the HTML version:

./sage -docbuild de/installation html

Or do the following to get the PDF version:

./sage -docbuild de/installation pdf


Should one post a patch that builds on top of the original patch?

Yes, something like that. In that case, you would be posting a reviewer patch.

comment:11 in reply to: ↑ 3 Changed 11 years ago by SimonKing

Replying to leif:

Sorry to say, but this translation really needs (more) work.

There are still lots of typos, inconsistently chosen terms and style, ...

I agree. I read introduction.rst (which describes the components of Sage) and found several mathematical notions that are different in German. Just two examples:

  • "toric varieties" are not "Torus-Varianten" but "torische Varietäten".
  • "ghmm: Modellbibliothek für versteckte Markov-Prozesse": ghmm is in fact a library that is concerned with hidden Markov models (so, the word "model" refers to Markov and not to the library).

I hope that Monday I can provide a patch on top of trac_8660-installation-de.patch.

Best regards, Simon

Changed 11 years ago by SimonKing

Reviewer patch, to apply after trac_8660-installation-de.patch

comment:12 follow-up: Changed 11 years ago by SimonKing

  • Keywords installation guide German added
  • Status changed from needs_work to needs_review

Earlier than I thought, I can provide a reviewer patch trac_8660-installation-de_reviewer.patch, which is to be applied after trac_8660-installation-de.patch

The changes also concern the parts that are the topic of ticket #8698, so, perhaps the two tickets can be united?

I inserted a lot more back ticks for marking code snippets, as in the English text. I slightly updated some version numbers (for example when the Singular or Gap consoles are demonstrated: Singular is now version 3-1-0, not 3-0-1). And I changed several notions to what I believe is correct in German. However, I am not sure in all cases.

So, I feel it would be necessary for more native speakers to have a look on it!

Where should my name be inserted: Author(s)? Reviewer(s)?

Some general questions, that also regard the English text: What is the status of Sage on Mac OS-X? I recently had no problems to build Sage in either 32 or 64 bit mode on bsd.math, so, perhaps the problem reports are outdated? And what about gcc versions?

Best regards,

Simon

comment:13 Changed 11 years ago by SimonKing

Sorry, regarding #8698, I was mistaken: I thought that the text of #8698 is a subset of the text we are discussing here, but in fact they are separated. So, the both tickets should be kept for now.

comment:14 in reply to: ↑ 12 ; follow-up: Changed 11 years ago by leif

Replying to SimonKing:

Earlier than I thought, I can provide a reviewer patch trac_8660-installation-de_reviewer.patch, which is to be applied after trac_8660-installation-de.patch

Habe den Patch lediglich ueberflogen, sieht aber schon ganz gut aus.

Einige Ungereimtheiten und Fehler sind allerdings noch drin, und wie Harald (schilly) bemerkte, sollte man vielleicht die Uebersetzung einiger Begriffe abklaeren.

(But don't ask for a patch now.)

-Leif

comment:15 in reply to: ↑ 14 ; follow-up: Changed 11 years ago by SimonKing

Replying to leif:

Einige Ungereimtheiten und Fehler sind allerdings noch drin, und wie Harald (schilly) bemerkte, sollte man vielleicht die Uebersetzung einiger Begriffe abklaeren.

If you can't do a patch for now: Can you make a list of these notions and flaws?

comment:16 in reply to: ↑ 15 ; follow-up: Changed 11 years ago by leif

Replying to SimonKing:

If you can't do a patch for now: Can you make a list of these notions and flaws?

Sorry, both alternatives require some time (as I'd like to change a lot of things), so be patient...

You're currently focussing on the translation of the tutorial anyway?

-Leif

comment:17 in reply to: ↑ 16 Changed 11 years ago by SimonKing

Replying to leif:

... You're currently focussing on the translation of the tutorial anyway?

Yes.

comment:18 Changed 10 years ago by minz

  • Cc minz added

comment:19 Changed 9 years ago by hedtke

  • Status changed from needs_review to needs_work

I was not able to apply the patch to my sage 4.7 on my 64bit mac:

sage: hg_sage.apply("/Users/hedtke/trac_8660-installation-de.patch")

WARNING:
Make sure to create a ~/.hgrc file:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
[ui]
username = William Stein <wstein@gmail.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------


cd "/Users/hedtke/sage/devel/sage" && hg status

WARNING:
Make sure to create a ~/.hgrc file:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
[ui]
username = William Stein <wstein@gmail.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------


cd "/Users/hedtke/sage/devel/sage" && hg status

WARNING:
Make sure to create a ~/.hgrc file:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
[ui]
username = William Stein <wstein@gmail.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------


cd "/Users/hedtke/sage/devel/sage" && hg import   "/Users/hedtke/trac_8660-installation-de.patch"
applying /Users/hedtke/trac_8660-installation-de.patch
patching file doc/common/builder.py
Hunk #1 FAILED at 13
1 out of 1 hunks FAILED -- saving rejects to file doc/common/builder.py.rej
abort: patch failed to apply

comment:20 Changed 9 years ago by hedtke

  • Cc hedtke added

comment:21 Changed 9 years ago by jhpalmieri

I was not able to apply the patch to my sage 4.7 on my 64bit mac:

I think that the patch to the file 'builder.py' is no longer necessary, so that part of the patch file can be deleted.

comment:22 Changed 9 years ago by hedtke

Ok. After deletion of the "builder.py" part of the patch I am able to apply both patches. But the docbuild failed:

noname:graphs hedtke$ sage -docbuild de/installation pdf
Detected SAGE64 flag
Building Sage on OS X in 64-bit mode
'de/installation' is not a recognized document. Type 'sage -docbuild -D' for a list
of documents, or 'sage -docbuild --help' for more help.

What I did:

  1. build a sage clone
  2. hg_sage.apply() with the modified first patch and the original second patch
  3. sage -b
  4. sage -docbuild de/installation pdf

but the files are there:

noname:installation hedtke$ pwd
/Users/hedtke/sage/devel/sage-test/doc/de/installation
noname:installation hedtke$ ls
binary.rst		icon.rst		quick-guide.rst
conf.py			index.rst		sagetex.rst
documentation.rst	introduction.rst	source.rst

comment:23 follow-up: Changed 9 years ago by jhpalmieri

I think I see the problem: I was sort of wrong about the patch to builder.py not being necessary. It's not necessary in the prelease versions of Sage 4.7.1, but a variant of it is necessary in Sage 4.7. In particular, you need to apply this part of the patch from #9725:

  • doc/common/build_options.py

    diff -r 361a4ad7d52c -r aad4d26889c1 doc/common/build_options.py
    a b  
    44
    55import os
    66SAGE_DOC = os.environ['SAGE_DOC']
    7 LANGUAGES = ['en', 'fr']
     7LANGUAGES = ['de', 'en', 'fr']
    88SPHINXOPTS = ""
    99PAPER = ""
    1010OMIT = ["introspect"]  # docs/dirs to omit when listing and building 'all'

You can certainly just do this by hand if you want. (Or if you want, you can apply all of the patches from #9725 in order to build the German tutorial.)

comment:24 in reply to: ↑ 23 Changed 9 years ago by hedtke

Thank you.

comment:25 Changed 9 years ago by hedtke

  • Owner changed from mvngu to hedtke

I work on a patched patch and I will update the german translation (it is based on a very old version of the english version).

comment:26 Changed 9 years ago by hedtke

  • Status changed from needs_work to needs_review

I restarted the translation from scratch (because the old patch was broken). I also updated the translation. I corrected some errors and now it is synced with the english version. Please proofread it.

comment:27 Changed 9 years ago by jhpalmieri

  • Dependencies set to #9725

I don't speak German so I can't help with the real review, but I would say this: rather than including the patch to doc/common/build_options.py, you should instead set the dependencies for this ticket to #9725. (Actually, I just set the dependencies so you don't have to, but you should remove that part of the patch file.)

Changed 9 years ago by hedtke

restarted the translation. use this instead of all former patches.

comment:28 Changed 9 years ago by hedtke

Thanks I updated the patch. Now it only contains the translation of the installation guide. Please be sure that you applied the patches from #9725 before proofread the new version.

comment:29 Changed 9 years ago by leif

Also einige Tip[p]fehler sind noch drin, ein paar Formulierungen sind auch etwas merkwürdig oder umständlich. "Eingabezeile" ist allenfalls Microsoft-Deutsch, den "Installationsführer" würde ich entsorgen und stattdessen das deutsche Wort "Installationsanleitung" verwenden.

Habe im Moment leider keine Zeit, alles zu lesen, vielleicht später.

P.S.: Durchaus möglich, dass das englische Original auch noch inhaltliche Fehler sowie Ungereimtheiten enthält; das war zumindest der Fall, als ich Bernhards Übersetzung korrekturgelesen habe.

comment:30 follow-up: Changed 9 years ago by hedtke

In meinem Dokument kommt "Installationsführer" nicht vor. Welche Version hast Du Dir angesehen?

Changed 9 years ago by hedtke

apply after trac_8660_restart.patch

comment:31 Changed 9 years ago by hedtke

Die "Eingabezeile" ist jetzt raus ;-)

BITTE BEACHTEN: Wegen dem fehlerhaften ersten Patch, habe ich einen kompletten NEUSTART gemacht. Bitte zuerst #9725 anwenden (eine Abhängigkeit). Dann trac_8660_restart.patch und danach trac_8660_restart_p1.patch. Alle anderen Patches sind in meinem NEUSTART enthalten.

comment:32 in reply to: ↑ 30 Changed 9 years ago by leif

Replying to hedtke:

In meinem Dokument kommt "Installationsführer" nicht vor. Welche Version hast Du Dir angesehen?

Ähem, habe nur das komplette Attachment überflogen, der Führer ist noch in doc/de/installation/index.rst zu finden.

Bin mir jetzt nicht sicher welche Teile neu oder von Dir überarbeitet sind.

Changed 9 years ago by hedtke

apply after trac_8660_restart_p1.patch

comment:33 Changed 9 years ago by hedtke

Vielen lieben Dank. Diese Datei produziert keinen Output in der PDF und in der HTML. Daher habe ich das nicht gesehen und leider auch vergessen zu korrigieren. Ist damit geschehen ;-)

comment:34 Changed 9 years ago by leif

John, we really have to get rid of these odd messages:

Detected SAGE64 flag
Building Sage on OS X in 64-bit mode
# HG changeset patch
# User Ivo Hedtke <hedtke@me.com>
# Date 1311110488 -7200
# Node ID 3348063a50bb0129e20520811c459b799eca49b9
# Parent  7bf76cfce2b3dabf5aeaf7a47d985b2204ad5cc0

(That's from trac_8660_restart_p2.patch, the other two patches have it as well.)

comment:35 Changed 9 years ago by leif

  • Authors changed from Bernhard Bloechl, Minh Van Nguyen to Bernhard Bloechl, Minh Van Nguyen, Simon King, Ivo Hedtke
  • Description modified (diff)
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