Opened 11 years ago
Last modified 6 years ago
#8660 needs_work enhancement
German translation of installation guide
Reported by:  mvngu  Owned by:  hedtke 

Priority:  major  Milestone:  sage6.4 
Component:  translations  Keywords:  installation guide, German 
Cc:  bblochl@…, leif, schilly, minz, hedtke  Merged in:  
Authors:  Bernhard Bloechl, Minh Van Nguyen, Simon King, Ivo Hedtke  Reviewers:  Leif Leonhardy, Harald Schilly, Volker Braun 
Report Upstream:  N/A  Work issues:  
Branch:  Commit:  
Dependencies:  Stopgaps: 
Description (last modified by )
A German translation of the Sage installation guide is complete. See sagesupport for background information. What needs to be done now is to use Sphinx for the markup so that the translated guide could be included in the Sage standard documentation. Attached is the ODF version of the German translation.
It's very likely that #8698 would be merged first, prior to merging the current ticket. In that case, the patch on this ticket would need to be rebased against #8698.
Apply
to the Sage library.
For Sage versions prior to 4.7.1.alpha2, you'll also have to apply the patches from #9725.
Attachments (11)
Change History (65)
Changed 11 years ago by
comment:1 Changed 11 years ago by
 Cc bblochl@… added
 Description modified (diff)
comment:2 Changed 11 years ago by
 Cc leif added
comment:3 followup: ↓ 11 Changed 11 years ago by
Sorry to say, but this translation really needs (more) work.
There are still lots of typos, inconsistently chosen terms and style, and some errors regarding the content (some information seems not to be uptodate in the original either, haven't checked that yet). IMHO the translation is too much onetoone in many places. (I would also add some things, perhaps leaving out other issues, since German documentation is rare if not nonexistent anyway.)
The question is which format to edit: convert to ReST and rework that version or change the ODT source?
Bernhard, were you willing to edit/review/maintain a ReST version?
I'd personally prefer typesetting it in LaTeX... ;) (and perhaps restructuring the text before it gets converted to .rst)
Unfortunately I currently don't feel having the time to maintain the "whole thing", otherwise I would some time ago have started providing a few translated documents. And  I'm unfortunately not a mathematician; so I can only offer sporadic and limited help, not continuous collaboration, at least at the moment.
Pardon me, hope my first impression doesn't embarrass you too much, and nevertheless thanks for your initiative,
Leif
comment:4 Changed 11 years ago by
 Status changed from new to needs_review
I have attached a patch to integrate the German translation into the Sage documentation. The patch needs to be reviewed by someone other than Bernhard and me. My knowledge of the German language is next to nothing. I relied on Google Translate while converting the document from ODT to Sphinx.
comment:5 Changed 11 years ago by
 Cc schilly added
comment:6 Changed 11 years ago by
 Status changed from needs_review to needs_work
ok, i looked at the rest text and yes, i could proofread it, but i think first of all we have to settle what kind of translation we want. there are some german words i'm not happy with. they sound very artificial and it is from my point of view absolutely ok to keep english words (or nearenglish words) because more users will know what they mean than a "forced" translation that just sounds funny.
my background is that i did english to german translations for openoffice many years ago and there we had the same problems. i also know that others view that differently, especially from upper and eastern germany. so, we should settle this first.
comment:7 Changed 11 years ago by
First of all, could we please change its title to a German term, which is e.g. Installationsanleitung...
There are other flaws like Polynomiale instead of Polynome, the meaning of (symbolic) links is "inverted", and much more I don't remember at the moment.
I strongly suggest splitting off a ticket to discuss the contents (or style) in German.
Leif
comment:8 Changed 11 years ago by
 Description modified (diff)
comment:9 followup: ↓ 10 Changed 11 years ago by
Can someone please tell me what commands are needed to produce the German documentation (in html or pdf), so that I can do some proof reading?
And how should corrections be suggested/made? Should one state one's suggestions here in trac comments, so that Bernhard can take them into account? Should one post a patch that builds on top of the original patch? Or should one create a "big" patch that could replace the original patch?
Cheers, Simon
comment:10 in reply to: ↑ 9 Changed 11 years ago by
Replying to SimonKing:
Can someone please tell me what commands are needed to produce the German documentation (in html or pdf), so that I can do some proof reading?
Apply the patch trac_8660installationde.patch, then issue the following command to build the HTML version:
./sage docbuild de/installation html
Or do the following to get the PDF version:
./sage docbuild de/installation pdf
Should one post a patch that builds on top of the original patch?
Yes, something like that. In that case, you would be posting a reviewer patch.
comment:11 in reply to: ↑ 3 Changed 11 years ago by
Replying to leif:
Sorry to say, but this translation really needs (more) work.
There are still lots of typos, inconsistently chosen terms and style, ...
I agree. I read introduction.rst (which describes the components of Sage) and found several mathematical notions that are different in German. Just two examples:
 "toric varieties" are not "TorusVarianten" but "torische Varietäten".
 "ghmm: Modellbibliothek für versteckte MarkovProzesse": ghmm is in fact a library that is concerned with hidden Markov models (so, the word "model" refers to Markov and not to the library).
I hope that Monday I can provide a patch on top of trac_8660installationde.patch.
Best regards, Simon
comment:12 followup: ↓ 14 Changed 11 years ago by
 Keywords installation guide German added
 Status changed from needs_work to needs_review
Earlier than I thought, I can provide a reviewer patch trac_8660installationde_reviewer.patch, which is to be applied after trac_8660installationde.patch
The changes also concern the parts that are the topic of ticket #8698, so, perhaps the two tickets can be united?
I inserted a lot more back ticks for marking code snippets, as in the English text. I slightly updated some version numbers (for example when the Singular or Gap consoles are demonstrated: Singular is now version 310, not 301). And I changed several notions to what I believe is correct in German. However, I am not sure in all cases.
So, I feel it would be necessary for more native speakers to have a look on it!
Where should my name be inserted: Author(s)? Reviewer(s)?
Some general questions, that also regard the English text: What is the status of Sage on Mac OSX? I recently had no problems to build Sage in either 32 or 64 bit mode on bsd.math, so, perhaps the problem reports are outdated? And what about gcc versions?
Best regards,
Simon
comment:13 Changed 11 years ago by
comment:14 in reply to: ↑ 12 ; followup: ↓ 15 Changed 11 years ago by
Replying to SimonKing:
Earlier than I thought, I can provide a reviewer patch trac_8660installationde_reviewer.patch, which is to be applied after trac_8660installationde.patch
Habe den Patch lediglich ueberflogen, sieht aber schon ganz gut aus.
Einige Ungereimtheiten und Fehler sind allerdings noch drin, und wie Harald (schilly) bemerkte, sollte man vielleicht die Uebersetzung einiger Begriffe abklaeren.
(But don't ask for a patch now.)
Leif
comment:15 in reply to: ↑ 14 ; followup: ↓ 16 Changed 11 years ago by
Replying to leif:
Einige Ungereimtheiten und Fehler sind allerdings noch drin, und wie Harald (schilly) bemerkte, sollte man vielleicht die Uebersetzung einiger Begriffe abklaeren.
If you can't do a patch for now: Can you make a list of these notions and flaws?
comment:16 in reply to: ↑ 15 ; followup: ↓ 17 Changed 11 years ago by
Replying to SimonKing:
If you can't do a patch for now: Can you make a list of these notions and flaws?
Sorry, both alternatives require some time (as I'd like to change a lot of things), so be patient...
You're currently focussing on the translation of the tutorial anyway?
Leif
comment:17 in reply to: ↑ 16 Changed 11 years ago by
comment:18 Changed 10 years ago by
 Cc minz added
comment:19 Changed 9 years ago by
 Status changed from needs_review to needs_work
I was not able to apply the patch to my sage 4.7 on my 64bit mac:
sage: hg_sage.apply("/Users/hedtke/trac_8660installationde.patch") WARNING: Make sure to create a ~/.hgrc file:  [ui] username = William Stein <wstein@gmail.com>  cd "/Users/hedtke/sage/devel/sage" && hg status WARNING: Make sure to create a ~/.hgrc file:  [ui] username = William Stein <wstein@gmail.com>  cd "/Users/hedtke/sage/devel/sage" && hg status WARNING: Make sure to create a ~/.hgrc file:  [ui] username = William Stein <wstein@gmail.com>  cd "/Users/hedtke/sage/devel/sage" && hg import "/Users/hedtke/trac_8660installationde.patch" applying /Users/hedtke/trac_8660installationde.patch patching file doc/common/builder.py Hunk #1 FAILED at 13 1 out of 1 hunks FAILED  saving rejects to file doc/common/builder.py.rej abort: patch failed to apply
comment:20 Changed 9 years ago by
 Cc hedtke added
comment:21 Changed 9 years ago by
I was not able to apply the patch to my sage 4.7 on my 64bit mac:
I think that the patch to the file 'builder.py' is no longer necessary, so that part of the patch file can be deleted.
comment:22 Changed 9 years ago by
Ok. After deletion of the "builder.py" part of the patch I am able to apply both patches. But the docbuild failed:
noname:graphs hedtke$ sage docbuild de/installation pdf Detected SAGE64 flag Building Sage on OS X in 64bit mode 'de/installation' is not a recognized document. Type 'sage docbuild D' for a list of documents, or 'sage docbuild help' for more help.
What I did:
 build a sage clone
 hg_sage.apply() with the modified first patch and the original second patch
 sage b
 sage docbuild de/installation pdf
but the files are there:
noname:installation hedtke$ pwd /Users/hedtke/sage/devel/sagetest/doc/de/installation noname:installation hedtke$ ls binary.rst icon.rst quickguide.rst conf.py index.rst sagetex.rst documentation.rst introduction.rst source.rst
comment:23 followup: ↓ 24 Changed 9 years ago by
I think I see the problem: I was sort of wrong about the patch to builder.py not being necessary. It's not necessary in the prelease versions of Sage 4.7.1, but a variant of it is necessary in Sage 4.7. In particular, you need to apply this part of the patch from #9725:

doc/common/build_options.py
diff r 361a4ad7d52c r aad4d26889c1 doc/common/build_options.py
a b 4 4 5 5 import os 6 6 SAGE_DOC = os.environ['SAGE_DOC'] 7 LANGUAGES = [' en', 'fr']7 LANGUAGES = ['de', 'en', 'fr'] 8 8 SPHINXOPTS = "" 9 9 PAPER = "" 10 10 OMIT = ["introspect"] # docs/dirs to omit when listing and building 'all'
You can certainly just do this by hand if you want. (Or if you want, you can apply all of the patches from #9725 in order to build the German tutorial.)
comment:24 in reply to: ↑ 23 Changed 9 years ago by
Thank you.
comment:25 Changed 9 years ago by
 Owner changed from mvngu to hedtke
I work on a patched patch and I will update the german translation (it is based on a very old version of the english version).
comment:26 Changed 9 years ago by
 Status changed from needs_work to needs_review
I restarted the translation from scratch (because the old patch was broken). I also updated the translation. I corrected some errors and now it is synced with the english version. Please proofread it.
comment:27 Changed 9 years ago by
 Dependencies set to #9725
I don't speak German so I can't help with the real review, but I would say this: rather than including the patch to doc/common/build_options.py
, you should instead set the dependencies for this ticket to #9725. (Actually, I just set the dependencies so you don't have to, but you should remove that part of the patch file.)
comment:28 Changed 9 years ago by
Thanks I updated the patch. Now it only contains the translation of the installation guide. Please be sure that you applied the patches from #9725 before proofread the new version.
comment:29 Changed 9 years ago by
Also einige Tip[p]fehler sind noch drin, ein paar Formulierungen sind auch etwas merkwürdig oder umständlich. "Eingabezeile" ist allenfalls MicrosoftDeutsch, den "Installationsführer" würde ich entsorgen und stattdessen das deutsche Wort "Installationsanleitung" verwenden.
Habe im Moment leider keine Zeit, alles zu lesen, vielleicht später.
P.S.: Durchaus möglich, dass das englische Original auch noch inhaltliche Fehler sowie Ungereimtheiten enthält; das war zumindest der Fall, als ich Bernhards Übersetzung korrekturgelesen habe.
comment:30 followup: ↓ 32 Changed 9 years ago by
In meinem Dokument kommt "Installationsführer" nicht vor. Welche Version hast Du Dir angesehen?
comment:31 Changed 9 years ago by
Die "Eingabezeile" ist jetzt raus ;)
BITTE BEACHTEN: Wegen dem fehlerhaften ersten Patch, habe ich einen kompletten NEUSTART gemacht. Bitte zuerst #9725 anwenden (eine Abhängigkeit). Dann trac_8660_restart.patch und danach trac_8660_restart_p1.patch. Alle anderen Patches sind in meinem NEUSTART enthalten.
comment:32 in reply to: ↑ 30 Changed 9 years ago by
Replying to hedtke:
In meinem Dokument kommt "Installationsführer" nicht vor. Welche Version hast Du Dir angesehen?
Ähem, habe nur das komplette Attachment überflogen, der Führer ist noch in doc/de/installation/index.rst
zu finden.
Bin mir jetzt nicht sicher welche Teile neu oder von Dir überarbeitet sind.
comment:33 Changed 9 years ago by
Vielen lieben Dank. Diese Datei produziert keinen Output in der PDF und in der HTML. Daher habe ich das nicht gesehen und leider auch vergessen zu korrigieren. Ist damit geschehen ;)
comment:34 followup: ↓ 36 Changed 9 years ago by
John, we really have to get rid of these odd messages:
Detected SAGE64 flag Building Sage on OS X in 64bit mode # HG changeset patch # User Ivo Hedtke <hedtke@me.com> # Date 1311110488 7200 # Node ID 3348063a50bb0129e20520811c459b799eca49b9 # Parent 7bf76cfce2b3dabf5aeaf7a47d985b2204ad5cc0
(That's from trac_8660_restart_p2.patch, the other two patches have it as well.)
comment:35 Changed 9 years ago by
 Description modified (diff)
comment:36 in reply to: ↑ 34 ; followup: ↓ 37 Changed 9 years ago by
Replying to leif:
John, we really have to get rid of these odd messages:
As far as I can tell, they are gone in the prerelease versions of Sage 4.7.1. (They are still present in 4.7, though.)
comment:37 in reply to: ↑ 36 Changed 9 years ago by
Replying to jhpalmieri:
As far as I can tell, they are gone in the prerelease versions of Sage 4.7.1. (They are still present in 4.7, though.)
Ah, ok. Never was a victim of them.
comment:38 Changed 9 years ago by
Also das PDF ist zum K...: 38 Seiten für eine "kurze Anleitung für die Erstinstallation".
Sollte vielleicht erst sammeln, aber hier ist schon mal das Komma falsch gesetzt:
Bestimmen Sie den Typ Ihrer CPU (32bit, 64bit oder “atom” für Linux und Intel, oder PowerPC für Mac OS X).
Die Beschreibung ist ohnehin etwas unsinnig, da für die Wahl zwischen 32Bit und 64BitVersion das Betriebssystem und nicht die vorliegende CPU maßgeblich ist.
comment:39 followup: ↓ 40 Changed 9 years ago by
Dann sollten wir vielleicht einfach "kurz" streichen. Siehst Du Möglichkeiten/Bedarf? irgendwo signifikant zu kürzen?
comment:40 in reply to: ↑ 39 Changed 9 years ago by
Replying to hedtke:
Dann sollten wir vielleicht einfach "kurz" streichen. Siehst Du Möglichkeiten/Bedarf? irgendwo signifikant zu kürzen?
Naja das Problem ist vorallem auch die Formatierung. "kurz" zu streichen wäre schon sinnvoll.
Man könnte auch die Reihenfolge ändern, sodass die wichtigen Punkte (baumfreundlich ausdruckbar) am Anfang stehen. Die Paketliste könnte man beispielsweise in einen Anhang verfrachten.
Denke aber eher, eine zusätzliche, wirklich kurze Installationsanleitung (1 bis 2 DINA4Seiten) zum Ausdrucken wäre praktischer. Auf besonderen, für den 08/15Benutzer eher irrelevanten Kram könnte man dort einfach verweisen.
comment:41 Changed 9 years ago by
Schöne Idee. Ich wäre auch für so eine zusätzliche Kurzanleitung auf max. 2 Seiten. Allerdings frage ich mich, ob das mit den rstDateien zu machen ist. Die jetzige Version produziert schon sehr viel Leerseiten und Co.
comment:42 Changed 9 years ago by
Apply trac_8660_restart.patch, trac_8660_restart_p1.patch, trac_8660_restart_p2.patch
(for the patchbot)
comment:43 followup: ↓ 44 Changed 8 years ago by
Die ersten zwei Zeilen in trac_8660_restart.patch gehoeren da nicht hin:
Detected SAGE64 flag Building Sage on OS X in 64bit mode # HG changeset patch ...
Der Inhalt sieht OK aus, haetten wir schon laengst mergen sollen. Falls Leif noch etwas an der Formulierung schrauben will dann kann er ja selbst noch einen patch dazufuegen...
The perfect is the enemy of the good
comment:44 in reply to: ↑ 43 Changed 8 years ago by
Replying to vbraun:
The perfect is the enemy of the good
Der Feind des Guten ist das bessere they say.
comment:45 Changed 8 years ago by
 Dependencies #9725 deleted
 Reviewers set to Leif Leonhardy, Harald Schilly, Volker Braun
 Status changed from needs_review to positive_review
Der Inhalt sieht OK aus, haetten wir schon laengst mergen sollen. Falls Leif noch etwas an der Formulierung schrauben will dann kann er ja selbst noch einen patch dazufuegen...
"mergen sollen"  schon wieder so was eingedeutscht... Ist "Installationsführer" denn so viel schlimmer als Airport BER/FRA/...? ;)
#9725 ist auch längst "eingemergt", falls man es so formulieren kann...
Ich habe die "patches" "rebasiert", d.h. die zwei überflüssigen Zeilen entfernt. Volkers Kommentar betrachte ich als Erlaubnis, "positive review" zu "clicken". Ich sehe keine schlimme Formatierung in die "gebaute" Dokumentation.
Changed 8 years ago by
Changed 8 years ago by
Changed 8 years ago by
comment:46 Changed 8 years ago by
 Description modified (diff)
Patchbot, apply trac_8660_restart.2.patch, trac_8660_restart_p1.2.patch, and trac_8660_restart_p2.2.patch.
comment:47 Changed 8 years ago by
 Milestone changed from sage5.6 to sage5.7
comment:48 Changed 8 years ago by
 Status changed from positive_review to needs_work
It's a very nitpicking detail, but you should not use TABs for indentation. Here is a TAB used:
Zur Überprüfung of ``perl`` installiert ist, tippt man :: command v perl
comment:49 Changed 8 years ago by
I am afraid this is a translation of an outdated version of the installation manual, a lot has changed and is in fact quite wrong, in particular the "installing from source" part. It even causes:
sage t long force_lib devel/sage/doc/de/installation/source.rst ********************************************************************** File "/var/lib/buildbot/build/sage/arando1/arando_full/build/sage5.7.beta0/devel/sagemain/doc/de/installation/source.rst", line 166: sage: import _tkinter Exception raised: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/var/lib/buildbot/build/sage/arando1/arando_full/build/sage5.7.beta0/local/bin/ncadoctest.py", line 1231, in run_one_test self.run_one_example(test, example, filename, compileflags) File "/var/lib/buildbot/build/sage/arando1/arando_full/build/sage5.7.beta0/local/bin/sagedoctest.py", line 38, in run_one_example OrigDocTestRunner.run_one_example(self, test, example, filename, compileflags) File "/var/lib/buildbot/build/sage/arando1/arando_full/build/sage5.7.beta0/local/bin/ncadoctest.py", line 1172, in run_one_example compileflags, 1) in test.globs File "<doctest __main__.example_0[2]>", line 1, in <module> import _tkinter###line 166: sage: import _tkinter ImportError: No module named _tkinter ********************************************************************** File "/var/lib/buildbot/build/sage/arando1/arando_full/build/sage5.7.beta0/devel/sagemain/doc/de/installation/source.rst", line 167: sage: import Tkinter Exception raised: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/var/lib/buildbot/build/sage/arando1/arando_full/build/sage5.7.beta0/local/bin/ncadoctest.py", line 1231, in run_one_test self.run_one_example(test, example, filename, compileflags) File "/var/lib/buildbot/build/sage/arando1/arando_full/build/sage5.7.beta0/local/bin/sagedoctest.py", line 38, in run_one_example OrigDocTestRunner.run_one_example(self, test, example, filename, compileflags) File "/var/lib/buildbot/build/sage/arando1/arando_full/build/sage5.7.beta0/local/bin/ncadoctest.py", line 1172, in run_one_example compileflags, 1) in test.globs File "<doctest __main__.example_0[3]>", line 1, in <module> import Tkinter###line 167: sage: import Tkinter File "/var/lib/buildbot/build/sage/arando1/arando_full/build/sage5.7.beta0/local/lib/python2.7/libtk/Tkinter.py", line 39, in <module> import _tkinter # If this fails your Python may not be configured for Tk ImportError: No module named _tkinter **********************************************************************
comment:50 Changed 7 years ago by
 Milestone changed from sage5.11 to sage5.12
comment:51 Changed 7 years ago by
 Milestone changed from sage6.1 to sage6.2
comment:52 Changed 7 years ago by
 Milestone changed from sage6.2 to sage6.3
comment:53 Changed 6 years ago by
 Milestone changed from sage6.3 to sage6.4
comment:54 Changed 6 years ago by
 Component changed from documentation to translations
ODF document of the German translation