Opened 23 months ago

Last modified 14 months ago

#25382 closed defect

py3: do not include the notebook documentation in sage — at Version 20

Reported by: chapoton Owned by:
Priority: major Milestone: sage-8.5
Component: notebook Keywords:
Cc: embray, jdemeyer, tscrim, fbissey, vbraun, kcrisman, jhpalmieri Merged in:
Authors: Reviewers:
Report Upstream: N/A Work issues:
Branch: public/25382 (Commits) Commit: 501b4d20341a54646ab4c806942bd0ea74e1bc22
Dependencies: Stopgaps:

Description (last modified by chapoton)

because sagenb is not yet available for python3

Change History (20)

comment:1 Changed 23 months ago by kcrisman

  • Cc kcrisman added

comment:2 Changed 23 months ago by chapoton

  • Branch set to public/25382
  • Commit set to 501b4d20341a54646ab4c806942bd0ea74e1bc22
  • Status changed from new to needs_info

I have no clear idea about what should be done here. Where will the sagenb doc live, if we get rid of it ?


New commits:

501b4d2trying to remove sagenb doc

comment:3 Changed 23 months ago by embray

Are we never going to get sagenb working in Python 3? I've just been assuming that for now we don't have it, but that we would eventually port it at least for now. Or are we truly abandoning sagenb for Python 3?

comment:4 Changed 23 months ago by chapoton

Well, if somebody wants to do the job of converting sagenb to full python3 compatibility.. I have no idea of the difficulty of the task.

comment:5 Changed 23 months ago by vbraun

I'm fine with removing sagenb when we drop Python2 support unless somebody wants to port it... The SageNB docs should just say that (and suggest to use the jupyter notebook)

comment:6 Changed 23 months ago by kcrisman

If the ETA is still some time from now for Py2 drop that seems plausible. But hopefully it won't be that bad; I feel like #22431 was closer than we thought.

comment:7 Changed 23 months ago by chapoton

We should try in the ticket #22431 to see if we can re-activate sagenb in py3-sage. We decided some time ago to de-activate it as it was blocking the build of py3-sage. Try to-re-insert sagenb requires first #24269 to fix py3-sage. Then rewrite the spkg-install on top of #25394.

On the side-point to get rid of sagenb imports inside sage, tt would be helpful to positive-review #24994.

comment:8 Changed 22 months ago by chapoton

  • Milestone changed from sage-8.3 to sage-duplicate/invalid/wontfix
  • Status changed from needs_info to needs_review

let us close this one as invalid, as we are on the way towards building the doc on py3, including sagenb doc

comment:9 Changed 22 months ago by gh-timokau

I think this is still a good idea (for python2 and python3). Given that sagenb has been deprecated for a while, I think it would be a good idea to either just remove it or make it a optional spkg. #24994 is a nice step in that direction and this would be another. Why should the documentation of the deprecated sagenb be included in sage when the documentation of other spkgs isn't?

For context: sagenb is a pain to package. First because of https://github.com/sagemath/sagenb/issues/440 and now while updating flask I encountered more problems.

comment:10 Changed 22 months ago by kcrisman

Deprecated in what sense? Unofficially, sure - but probably this would need to be a much bigger announcement and very obvious that it is removed, rather than the (very sensible) procedure of upgrade option we currently offer.

comment:11 Changed 22 months ago by vbraun

+1 to communicating the deprecation better, e.g. display a deprecation notice when you start sagenb. I don't really mind it being standard vs. optional, I just don't want somebody new to Sage get started with sagenb in 2018 just because it comes up by default.

comment:12 Changed 22 months ago by gh-timokau

Deprecated because I was told so in https://github.com/sagemath/sagenb/issues/440 (I was surprised there so I agree that it should be communicated better). Also the docs refer to it as the "legacy SageNB".

comment:13 follow-ups: Changed 22 months ago by kcrisman

I don't think that anyone would be having it come up by default, the default is Jeroen's converter and pretty soon most people's default ends up the Jupyter. Maybe an intermediate thing to being an optional package (which is very bad for the kind of end users who would need sagenb!) would be to formally change the default interface to being Jupyter, with VERY clear instructions for how to continue conversion after that point sprinkled everywhere.

comment:14 in reply to: ↑ 13 Changed 22 months ago by jdemeyer

Replying to kcrisman:

Jeroen's converter

Just to give proper credit: Volker started that project and did most of the work. It's true that I also worked on it in order to make it the default interface, fixing various bugs and adding the "run SageNB" option.

comment:15 in reply to: ↑ 13 Changed 22 months ago by gh-timokau

Replying to kcrisman:

I don't think that anyone would be having it come up by default, the default is Jeroen's converter and pretty soon most people's default ends up the Jupyter.

I think that is even more of a reason to work towards making sagenb optional.

Maybe an intermediate thing to being an optional package (which is very bad for the kind of end users who would need sagenb!)

Are we sure there even are users that keep up with the latest version of sage (e.g. aren't using 6.0 forever or something) *and* still use sagenb? And even making sagenb optional wouldn't immediately make that impossible, it would just make it a tiny bit more inconvenient. That might be a good thing because then they might either complain here (showing us that there are such users) or realize that it might be time to look into the jupyter notebook.

would be to formally change the default interface to being Jupyter, with VERY clear instructions for how to continue conversion after that point sprinkled everywhere.

I agree.

comment:16 follow-up: Changed 22 months ago by fbissey

<clear throat>Well in the math department at my university (university of Canterbury, New Zealand) they have reasonably recent installs of sage. But when I talk to them they also have hundreds of sagenb notebook because they have been using sage for quite some time. What they are after is literally a mass conversion tool. And even with one, the inertia of the old sagenb here sounds quite big.

comment:17 in reply to: ↑ 16 ; follow-up: Changed 22 months ago by gh-timokau

Ah, good to know. What about that converter kcrisman was talking about?

comment:18 in reply to: ↑ 17 ; follow-up: Changed 22 months ago by fbissey

Replying to gh-timokau:

Ah, good to know. What about that converter kcrisman was talking about?

There is probably a way to script it but it's just no one really want to take that job. I may have to do it for them at some point but that will be a tough sell.

Last edited 22 months ago by fbissey (previous) (diff)

comment:19 in reply to: ↑ 18 Changed 22 months ago by gh-timokau

Replying to fbissey:

Replying to gh-timokau:

Ah, good to know. What about that converter kcrisman was talking about?

There is probably a way to script it but it's just no one really want to take that job. I may have to do it for them at some point but that will be a tough sell.

Yeah I get that. We could still make the deprecation more obvious and further disentangle sagenb and sage. Maybe a big deprecation warning in 8.3 and then making it optional in 8.4 or something.

comment:20 Changed 22 months ago by chapoton

  • Component changed from python3 to notebook
  • Description modified (diff)
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