Opened 6 years ago

Closed 3 years ago

Last modified 2 years ago

#21046 closed enhancement (fixed)

Numerical modular symbols for elliptic curves

Reported by: wuthrich Owned by:
Priority: major Milestone: sage-9.1
Component: elliptic curves Keywords: modular symbols
Cc: John Cremona, Marc Masdeu, William Stein, Peter Bruin Merged in:
Authors: Chris Wuthrich Reviewers: Varenyam Bakshi
Report Upstream: N/A Work issues:
Branch: 1a1a8ef (Commits, GitHub, GitLab) Commit:
Dependencies: Stopgaps:

Status badges

Description (last modified by wuthrich)

I propose here to add fast modular symbols for elliptic curves. The proposed changes would add a cython file containing the new code to work with numerical modular symbols and integrate them for using for elliptic curves and their p-adic L-functions.

The idea is similar to #6666, where "analytic modular symbols" were added to elliptic curves. However the code there is very slow and this ticket would replace that code completely.

So a modular symbol for a given elliptic curve can be computed using numerical integration on the upper half plane rather than using linear algebra to determine the space of all modular symbols of level N first. Unlike #6666, we use rigorous bounds on the error of computations to be certain that we get the correct rational number.

The code here compares in speed with eclib and is wayway faster than the python code within sage. When computing a single modular symbol or a few with small denominator, the code here is much faster than eclib and can cope with conductors in the millions. When computing all manin symbols for one curve, the speed is in the same order as for eclib for semistable curves, but sometimes slower.

The preprint explaining all is here.

Change History (43)

comment:1 Changed 6 years ago by wuthrich

Branch: u/wuthrich/ticket/21046
Commit: 63c6606552ea3a256b90596b609539853cb46755

comment:2 Changed 6 years ago by wuthrich

Description: modified (diff)

comment:3 Changed 6 years ago by wuthrich

Cc: John Cremona Marc Masdeu William Stein added
Status: newneeds_review

comment:4 Changed 6 years ago by wuthrich

Cc: Peter Bruin added

comment:5 Changed 6 years ago by John Cremona

I have started reading the code, as a first step to reviewing this. As I read I will note here some trivial things so they do not get lost.

  • good documentation of the underlying mathematics!
  • in one place you talk about making the precision "small" where there is a default prec=53, so haps that should be "large".
  • "eclib" is "ec lib" in one place at least.
  • After "The Manin constant for the X_0-optimal curve should be 1 if the curve lies outside the Cremona tables" you could add that with the range of the tables this is proved! (That is perhaps implicit anyway, but not explicit.)
    • since you can call M(r) with a sign other than the one with which M was created, why specify a sign on creation at all? Is it just to set a default?
    • the method M.value_r_to_rr() is rather a clumsy name. Can you not make this just M(r,rr), where rr defaults in infinity?

Someone who knows cython should look at the code too (robertb?)

It seems a pity to me that you need a new class for your cusps rather than adding to the existing class.

In one place you mention that I do not always guarantee the optimal curve, which is correct (though I always guarantee c=1, if necessary by computing the full modular symbol not just the plus symbol). See https://raw.githubusercontent.com/JohnCremona/ecdata/master/doc/manin.txt I am not sure what is going on where you multiply t0 by 2 "just in case".

In one place you divide D by the maximal power of a prime l. You could there use

sage: N=1010 sage: N.prime_to_m_part(5) 1024

The underlying summations to give the numerical values are of course also implemented in eclib (to arbitrary precision there too). One day it would be possible to add the relevant functions to the eclib interface and use that (compiled C, possibly fater than cython).

In the function where it says that setup_twist needs to be called first, should there be a flag to indicate that that has been done (and calls the setup here if not set)? Safer?

That's all for now. I did read through all the code, but not that thoroughly, and have not started to build or test!

comment:6 Changed 6 years ago by John Cremona

This does not merge cleanly onto the current branch at #10256 and I suggest that we get that one finished, then merge that onto this, fixing any conflicts, before getting back to reviewing this.

comment:7 in reply to:  5 Changed 6 years ago by wuthrich

Hi John,

I am rebasing it now and I am trying to put in your comments already. I hope I have a new version soon.

Replying to cremona:

  • in one place you talk about making the precision "small" where there is a default prec=53, so haps that should be "large".

I am trying to find that.

  • After "The Manin constant for the X_0-optimal curve should be 1 if the curve lies outside the Cremona tables" you could add that with the range of the tables this is proved! (That is perhaps implicit anyway, but not explicit.)

done.

  • since you can call M(r) with a sign other than the one with which M was created, why specify a sign on creation at all? Is it just to set a default?
  • the method M.value_r_to_rr() is rather a clumsy name. Can you not make this just M(r,rr), where rr defaults in infinity?

I modelled __call__ on the other modular symbols, so that E.modular_symbol(implementation...) all have the same call function. Hence the possibility for the user to specify the dafault sign.

On second thought, I decided to make value__r_to_rr and value_r_to_ioo inaccessible. The reason is that the function as implemented only works for unitary cusps anyway. I can not see a use of having M(r,rr). The origin is a canonincal base-point for homology on E. Anyway, it would not take much longer to write M(r)-M(rr).

Someone who knows cython should look at the code too (robertb?)

Sure, if we can motivate someone.

It seems a pity to me that you need a new class for your cusps rather than adding to the existing class.

Maybe the name is misleading. This is really a rational point on the boundary of the upper half plane, not a point on a modular curve. I did not want to load anything heavy just for computing W_r.

In one place you mention that I do not always guarantee the optimal curve, which is correct (though I always guarantee c=1, if necessary by computing the full modular symbol not just the plus symbol). See https://raw.githubusercontent.com/JohnCremona/ecdata/master/doc/manin.txt I am not sure what is going on where you multiply t0 by 2 "just in case".

There is not a unique maximal curve in the isogeny class. Any two maximal ones are linked by a two isogeny to a common curve. So if we had the wrong maximal curve then an extra factor 2 will guarantee that we only assume that the Manin constant for one of the curves in the class is trivial. Moreover the Manin constant for semistable curves is known to be 1 or 2, so it is really a harmless precaution.

In one place you divide D by the maximal power of a prime l. You could there use

   sage: N=10^10
   sage: N.prime_to_m_part(5)
   1024

changed

The underlying summations to give the numerical values are of course also implemented in eclib (to arbitrary precision there too). One day it would be possible to add the relevant functions to the eclib interface and use that (compiled C, possibly fater than cython).

True. It would then make more sense to transport the whole code. But that is going to happen after my retirement, I fear.

In the function where it says that setup_twist needs to be called first, should there be a flag to indicate that that has been done (and calls the setup here if not set)? Safer?

The flag is that _D is set to -1. That is change in _twisted_symbol, too.

comment:8 Changed 6 years ago by git

Commit: 63c6606552ea3a256b90596b609539853cb467554de004a564c27368d3a1d2e6df97c251dd767f12

Branch pushed to git repo; I updated commit sha1. New commits:

cd85b8fMerge branch sage 7.4.beta4 into ticket/21046_modsymnum
4dbfdefMerge branch 'ticket/21046_modsymnum' of ssh://warrior.maths.nottingham.ac.uk/home/pmzcw/prog/sage into ticket/21046_modsymnum
cb3fd05#22077 update eclib to v20170104
ee879eework in progress on modular symbols
0db2a00trac #10256: reviewer patches: first part, highlight wrong values, references
49be7d810256: fix one doctest
9f376a6Merge 10256 and sage 7.5
30f9cd3Trac #21046: merge with new eclib version and sage 7.5
4de004atrac #21046: review corrections

comment:9 Changed 6 years ago by wuthrich

Dependencies: #20864#20864 #10256 (and so the linked eclib version at #22077)

comment:10 Changed 6 years ago by Frédéric Chapoton

use py3 syntax for raise:

++           raise ValueError, "ECModularSymbol can only be created with signs +1 or 0, not {}".format(sign)
+Old-style raise statement inserted on 1 non-empty lines

comment:11 Changed 6 years ago by wuthrich

That slipped in at #10256. I will correct it here. But I wait to see if there is more to do.

comment:12 Changed 5 years ago by Frédéric Chapoton

Branch: u/wuthrich/ticket/21046public/21046
Commit: 4de004a564c27368d3a1d2e6df97c251dd767f120dfe075f42258fdba83e9c08fb9c51675ed73430
Dependencies: #20864 #10256 (and so the linked eclib version at #22077)

I just made it build again.


New commits:

c495f75Merge branch 'u/wuthrich/ticket/21046' in 8.1.b3
0dfe075trac 21046 no more pxi

comment:13 Changed 5 years ago by Frédéric Chapoton

Milestone: sage-7.3sage-8.1

comment:14 Changed 5 years ago by git

Commit: 0dfe075f42258fdba83e9c08fb9c51675ed73430edf6e6dae2595468381bd40435fd4ddcea95e77e

Branch pushed to git repo; I updated commit sha1. New commits:

edf6e6dconvert EXAMPLE:: to EXAMPLES::

comment:15 Changed 5 years ago by wuthrich

Thanks a lot for the help, especially because I would not have known about these changes. It seems to work just as before. So this is still up for a reviewer to review it....

comment:16 Changed 5 years ago by Frédéric Chapoton

Status: needs_reviewneeds_work

does not apply

comment:17 Changed 4 years ago by git

Commit: edf6e6dae2595468381bd40435fd4ddcea95e77e81ec21003234e9ce26e8e78564ffaa10e5888e57

Branch pushed to git repo; I updated commit sha1. New commits:

81ec210Merge branch 'develop' at 8.2.rc4 into modsymnum

comment:18 Changed 4 years ago by wuthrich

Status: needs_workneeds_review

Interest in this seems low, but I did the merge and it would be ready for review again.

comment:19 Changed 4 years ago by Gerardo Zelaya Eufemia

Sorry I am new to this, I think this should to be checked:

ainvs = [1, -1, 1, -1391, -25849]
E = EllipticCurve(ainvs)
M = E.modular_symbol(implementation="num")
M(1/2), M(1/5)
L = E.padic_lseries(5, implementation = 'num')

returns the following: (0, -12) Error in lines 4-4 Traceback (most recent call last):

File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/smc_sagews/sage_server.py", line 995, in execute

exec compile(block+'\n', , 'single') in namespace, locals

File "", line 1, in <module> File "sage/misc/cachefunc.pyx", line 2014, in sage.misc.cachefunc.CachedMethodCaller?.call (build/cythonized/sage/misc/cachefunc.c:10787)

w = self._instance_call(*args, kwds)

File "sage/misc/cachefunc.pyx", line 1890, in sage.misc.cachefunc.CachedMethodCaller?._instance_call (build/cythonized/sage/misc/cachefunc.c:10243)

return self.f(self._instance, *args, kwds)

File "/projects/d8842e1c-6d95-4e6d-b45d-ef46e7303532/sage/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/schemes/elliptic_curves/padics.py", line 214, in padic_lseries

normalize = normalize, implementation = implementation)

File "/projects/d8842e1c-6d95-4e6d-b45d-ef46e7303532/sage/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/schemes/elliptic_curves/padic_lseries.py", line 201, in init

crla = E.label()

File "/projects/d8842e1c-6d95-4e6d-b45d-ef46e7303532/sage/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/schemes/elliptic_curves/ell_rational_field.py", line 3991, in cremona_label

label = self.database_attributes()cremona_label?

File "sage/misc/cachefunc.pyx", line 2377, in sage.misc.cachefunc.CachedMethodCallerNoArgs?.call (build/cythonized/sage/misc/cachefunc.c:13430)

self.cache = f(self._instance)

File "/projects/d8842e1c-6d95-4e6d-b45d-ef46e7303532/sage/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/schemes/elliptic_curves/ell_rational_field.py", line 715, in database_attributes

raise LookupError?("Cremona database does not contain entry for " + repr(self))

LookupError?: Cremona database does not contain entry for Elliptic Curve defined by y2 + x*y + y = x3 - x2 - 1391*x - 25849 over Rational Field

comment:20 Changed 4 years ago by wuthrich

Status: needs_reviewneeds_work

This is not a bug introduced by this code, but it make sense to fix it here, too. Before this patch it did not make much sense to ask for a curve with that large conductor (700002). I shall fix that soon.

comment:21 Changed 4 years ago by git

Commit: 81ec21003234e9ce26e8e78564ffaa10e5888e5700a8630855ad6d61bc31d7d5676fc535150e56c6

Branch pushed to git repo; I updated commit sha1. New commits:

5522cf4Merge branch sage 8.2 into modsymnum
00a8630a different catch for cremona labels

comment:22 Changed 4 years ago by wuthrich

Status: needs_workneeds_review

fixed. The result, by the way, is L.series(3) = 2 + 2*5 + 3*5^2 + 5^3 + 4*5^4 + O(5^5) + (3 + 3*5 + O(5^2))*T + (3 + 5 + O(5^2))*T^2 + (1 + O(5^2))*T^3 + (2 + 3*5 + O(5^2))*T^4 + O(T^5)


New commits:

5522cf4Merge branch sage 8.2 into modsymnum
00a8630a different catch for cremona labels

comment:23 Changed 4 years ago by Frédéric Chapoton

Milestone: sage-8.1sage-8.3

branch does not apply

comment:24 Changed 4 years ago by Frédéric Chapoton

Status: needs_reviewneeds_work

comment:25 Changed 4 years ago by wuthrich

I am afraid, I won't update this until someone makes a sign that they are interested in reviewing the ticket.

comment:26 Changed 4 years ago by Vincent Delecroix

Milestone: sage-8.3sage-8.4

update milestone 8.3 -> 8.4

comment:27 Changed 3 years ago by wuthrich

Branch: public/21046public/21046_new
Commit: 00a8630855ad6d61bc31d7d5676fc535150e56c677e0af87a0a2b3cb393fcd064454c0bdb77e69ef
Status: needs_workneeds_review

I needed the code again so I updated it to 9.0.beta8 and python3. It seems to work, but I am not too sure all coding is python3esque.

comment:28 Changed 3 years ago by wuthrich

Status: needs_reviewneeds_work

At the very least I have to move the references.

comment:29 Changed 3 years ago by git

Commit: 77e0af87a0a2b3cb393fcd064454c0bdb77e69ef5f79bbbcc5c0176632466dd301838fa29665a513

Branch pushed to git repo; I updated commit sha1. New commits:

5f79bbbsmall edits, move biblio

comment:30 Changed 3 years ago by Frédéric Chapoton

The patchbot is (since very recent changes in the patchbot) not happy about:

  • lines ending with space then : (there should be no space before a colon)
  • lines starting with Returns (one should use Return in the first-line descriptions)

comment:31 Changed 3 years ago by wuthrich

Thanks, Frédéric. Precisely what I wondered about. I will fix that soon.

comment:32 Changed 3 years ago by git

Commit: 5f79bbbcc5c0176632466dd301838fa29665a513ffe5df066ed8b7782e6640652bc9d468eeee4e44

Branch pushed to git repo; I updated commit sha1. New commits:

ffe5df0 spacing and wording

comment:33 Changed 3 years ago by git

Commit: ffe5df066ed8b7782e6640652bc9d468eeee4e441a1a8ef6767c837428d04912bc4f7db79bfc058d

Branch pushed to git repo; I updated commit sha1. New commits:

d6e1436Merge branch sage 9.0.beta9 into mod_num
1a1a8efdelete some spaces

comment:34 Changed 3 years ago by wuthrich

Status: needs_workneeds_review

comment:35 Changed 3 years ago by Frédéric Chapoton

Do you need validation by an expert ? Otherwise, I can set to positive.

comment:36 Changed 3 years ago by varenyam

Reviewers: gh-varenyamBakshi
Status: needs_reviewpositive_review

comment:37 Changed 3 years ago by Frédéric Chapoton

reviewer name should be your real full name, not your login

comment:38 Changed 3 years ago by William Stein

+1 to this, and I'm very happy this if finally going to get included in Sage! It's an extremely important contribution.

comment:39 Changed 3 years ago by varenyam

Reviewers: gh-varenyamBakshiVarenyam bakshi

comment:40 in reply to:  37 Changed 3 years ago by varenyam

Replying to chapoton:

reviewer name should be your real full name, not your login

yeah i forgot. thanks for reminding.

comment:41 Changed 3 years ago by Frédéric Chapoton

Milestone: sage-8.4sage-9.1

comment:42 Changed 3 years ago by Volker Braun

Branch: public/21046_new1a1a8ef6767c837428d04912bc4f7db79bfc058d
Resolution: fixed
Status: positive_reviewclosed

comment:43 Changed 2 years ago by Matthias Köppe

Commit: 1a1a8ef6767c837428d04912bc4f7db79bfc058d
Reviewers: Varenyam bakshiVarenyam Bakshi
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